Page 1 Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 Page 9 Page 10 Page 11 Page 12 Page 13 Page 14 Page 15 Page 16 Page 17 Page 18 Page 19 Page 20 Page 21 Page 22 Page 23 Page 24 Page 25 Page 26 Page 27 Page 28 Page 29 Page 30 Page 31 Page 32 Page 33 Page 34 Page 35 Page 36 Page 37 Page 38 Page 39 Page 40 Page 41 Page 42 Page 43 Page 44 Page 45 Page 46 Page 47 Page 48 Page 49 Page 50 Page 51 Page 52 Page 53 Page 54 Page 55 Page 56 Page 57 Page 58 Page 59 Page 60 Page 61 Page 62 Page 63 Page 64 Page 65 Page 66 Page 67 Page 68 Page 69 Page 70 Page 71 Page 72 Page 73 Page 74 Page 75 Page 76Plough Quarterly • Winter 2015 59 evangelism as you do about social justice? Do you care as much about how there are millions of people who have never heard about Jesus as you do about the fact that there’s enormous poverty and injustice in the world?” I certainly do not want to go back to a one-sided empha- sis on evangelism, but neither do I want to see a repeat of a one-sided social gospel movement whose only concern is to improve the outer conditions of the world. You’ve recommended that the church should make a massive investment into nonviolent action by researching tactics and building insti- tutions to carry it out. How would you respond to those who say, “Hold on – is that really the church’s task?” As I’ve said for decades now, the first thing the church should do is be the church. If it’s not being the church – whether it’s crossing racial lines or working for justice for the poor – then preaching policy changes to the government is nothing but hypocrisy. It’s a farce to try to persuade Washington to do what we Chris- tians don’t live out. Our first priority is to be the church and to live out the justice and peace of Christ. But as we do this, we will also be compelled to reach out to others, and in so doing we will not only tell people about Jesus, how to follow him and accept him as the Lord and Savior he is, but in his name and motivated by his love we will work to change society. Christ called us to be peacemakers and to spread the gospel of peace in every way we can. That is where we need to put our energies and resources. Interview by Peter Mommsen on October 9, 2014. is better unless they are willing to run the same risks in a nonviolent struggle against evil as sol- diers do in battle. You’ve been at this work for decades, calling on Christians to live justly and to take responsibility for peacemaking. Do you see signs of progress? It’s been thirty-seven years since my book Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger was pub- lished – I’m just revising it for the sixth edition, which will come out next year. At the time I wrote it, most evangelical leaders said that the primary mission of the church is saving souls and doing evangelism. There was a huge debate for several decades over whether or not social action and working for social justice was also an important part of the mission of the church. That debate has been won almost across the board. Evangelical leaders now advo- cate that we’re supposed to do evangelism and we’re supposed to do social justice. By contrast, in theologically liberal and mainline circles such a holistic approach hasn’t been so readily embraced. If you don’t believe in the deity of Christ – if you don’t believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation – then there’s not much point in proclaiming the gospel. But among most evan- gelicals around the world today, evangelism and social action are an integral whole. Take for example the International Justice Mission and the way it has grown so fast, or think of the Justice Conference and of all the younger evangelicals who are involved in it. And as a matter of fact, over the last four decades poverty has been substantially reduced in the world. Of course, there are still around 1.2 billion people who try to live on $1.25 a day. There is still desperate poverty in the world, yet the progress has been enormous. In Christian circles nowadays, it sometimes seems that “justice” has become an overused word. Are we in danger of losing sight of the power of the gospel and how it can change people’s lives? I’m actually quite worried about this. I want to say: “Hey, do you care as much about A Kurdish refugee in Mursitpinar, Turkey, who fled the fighting around Kobani in October 2014 Jordi Bernabeu Farrús / Wikimedia Commons