Page 1 Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 Page 9 Page 10 Page 11 Page 12 Page 13 Page 14 Page 15 Page 16 Page 17 Page 18 Page 19 Page 20 Page 21 Page 22 Page 23 Page 24 Page 25 Page 26 Page 27 Page 28 Page 29 Page 30 Page 31 Page 32 Page 33 Page 34 Page 35 Page 36 Page 37 Page 38 Page 39 Page 40 Page 41 Page 42 Page 43 Page 44 Page 45 Page 46 Page 47 Page 48 Page 49 Page 50 Page 51 Page 52 Page 53 Page 54 Page 55 Page 56 Page 57 Page 58 Page 59 Page 60 Page 61 Page 62 Page 63 Page 64 Page 65 Page 66 Page 67 Page 68 Page 69 Page 70 Page 71 Page 72 Page 73 Page 74 Page 75 Page 76 Page 77 Page 78 Page 79 Page 80 Page 81 Page 82 Page 83 Page 84Plough Quarterly • Winter 2017 13 are thought of as being morally equivalent to racists. Many progressive Christians are saying: “We’re sick of Christianity being a religion that is homophobic and obsessed with sexuality.” But you’ve suggested that the sexual revolution is at the heart of the clash between the gospel and contemporary culture. Why is that? Philip Rieff, a sociologist and a secular Jew, wrote a very impor- tant book in the sixties, The Triumph of the Therapeutic, in which he talked about the sexual revolution, which was just beginning, and he observed that opposition to sexual individualism is very near the core of Christian culture. Rieff said that since this opposition has not held, the churches will be discredited. Jesus was a Jew of first-century Palestine; he believed and taught what Jews of that time believed about sexual purity. It’s just stunning to me that we think we can just toss all that out now because we in the twenty-first- century West have decided we know better. If we say marriage can be whatever we want it to be and we can do whatever we want with our bodies, it doesn’t matter as long as our hearts are OK with Jesus, we’re throwing so much overboard that we can’t throw overboard. Russell Moore, a Southern Baptist leader, recently suggested that the marginalization of Christianity in the public square may be bad news for America but it’s good news for the church. Would you agree? Insofar as it purges the cultural Christianity from the church, I think it’s good. On the other hand, there’s going to be a lot of suffering ahead, and a lot of people on the margins of the church, who might have been gradually brought closer to Christ, are going to fall away. I can’t rejoice in that or just say, “Bring it on,” even though the purification will probably make the church stronger and more faithful in the end. When the Christian witness gets muted or pushed to the side, it’s not just people in the church who will get hurt – society as a whole will suffer when it loses its leaven. I think the church is going to have to become not more seeker-friendly but more finder-friendly. That means discipleship. We’ve got to go beyond just showing up on Sunday or having that altar- call conversion moment. What does it mean the next day? What does it mean to be formed in Christian habits, in Christian ways of life? That’s something the monks in Norcia teach. They showed me the value of routine, of saying the same prayers and psalms and getting the Bible into your heart by reading it daily in lectio divina. Those everyday, ordinary rhythms get the Christian faith into your bones. It’s something we’re going to have to recover if we’re going to survive as a commu- nity of faith. The Discipline of Community As the Rule of Saint Benedict makes clear, the kind of common life you’re suggesting is impossible without discipline and mutual accountability. That’s so necessary. I was talking to a Protes- tant pastor in Kentucky about this. A couple The monks may never say a word to you about Jesus Christ, but you can see him in their faces.